Part 3 of Bravehearts’s commentary of 9/2/08.

(Footnotes in brackets [] refer to my response)


[Comments regarding the educational system]


[Here Braveheart addresses the section titled “on a related topic” (education) in my 8/18/2008 response to him]

I am aware that "university research programs generate & disseminate knowledge as part of their academic mandate". My observation has been that this knowledge generally has been the expansion of existing knowledge, such as inventions. There may be examples of new knowledge/inventions developed in university labs that I am not aware of. [1]

My statements to Lisa H. (re. education) were in the context of economic conditions that cause an ever increasing number of poor folks. My "disdain" about the education system is not about the various disciplines of knowledge skills, it is about the failure of the education system to transfer those skills to their students. This concept was stated (in my paper) as the education system turning out "victims" from a lack of academic skills. The observable evidence is in student achievement testing reports that are printed periodically in the newspaper. See Spokesman-review article, "More schools miss mark" Section "B" (Northwest), August 29, 2008. The decline in student knowledge skills is also reflected in other testing such as college entrance exams. It is this failure to transfer academic skills that is necessitating the H 2 B Visa program to import academically skilled (educated) foreigners to fill the need. [2]

An additional disdain I have for the education system is that it can accept & teach theory (TOE) as truth and force students to accept theory as science (tests to graduate) while denying the free inquiry/discussion about other theories such as creation. From my perspective all theories (or none) should be given equal hearing because all theoretical explanations are based on theory, not science. Let each student know of all the possibilities and through his/her personal life observations & experiences decide what is  truth.   All theories require faith & belief in their acceptance. [3]

I am aware that inventors learn what they can about their particular passion "standing on the shoulders" of those who experimented before them. If my memory of history studies serves me correctly there was great skepticism from the existing education system about each major advance in knowledge. For example, the skepticism about a round world orbiting around the sun, steam from a kettle having power, that man could fly like a bird, that assembly line automobiles would replace horses & buggies and etc. That a college/university cooperated with a student's idea(s) (steam experiments) doesn't validate the knowledge of steam power coming from the education system.  [4]

As for William Shockley, he and his associates John Bardeen & Walter Brattain were all working at Bell Telephone Laboratories. Thus the invention of the transistor was not discovered at any college or university. See Time Magazine Article "100 greatest men of the 20th Century" @ http://www.time .com/time/time1OO/scientist/profile/Shockley.html He was "home schooled" before "he attended Hollywood High School" and "he found his interest in physics at Stanford University". Being interested in & learning a mathematical skill is far different from exercising that skill to a new invention. Again, it is the failure of the education system to transfer these skills to their students that I disdain. [5]

I do not think that someone without a medical training foundation could advance the level of knowledge in the field. I have already stated that I observe that generally "inventors learn all they can about the subject of their passion" from anyone they can. Dr. Salk worked with Dr. Albert Sabin in the search for the vaccine for Polio. "Dr. Salk was strictly a kitchen chemist, Dr. Sabin used to gripe". "He never had an original idea in his life." "But imaginative people perennially underrate efficient ones, and at the time, the kitchen chemist--who prepared his vaccine by marinating the virus in formalin-- was just what the doctor ordered." Quoted from the Time Magazine web site above.  [6]

Dr. Sabin along with Louis Pasteur, believed that a "crippled virus" was what was needed to vaccinate against Polio. "Salk, from his flu-fighting days, knew the immune system could be triggered without infection, using deactivated, or "killed" viruses." "And as it turned out, his quick-and-dirty killed viruses were better suited to a crash program than Sabin's carefully attenuated live ones". "By 1954 Salk & Francis (U of Michigan professor that supported Salk's ideas) launched the largest medical experiment (a million children) yet carried out in the US., some with vaccine, some with a placebo.  [7]

The vaccine worked." "But the world of science/education has a protocol for releasing such findings: first publish them in a medical journal, and then spread the credit as widely as possible." Quotes from the Time Mag. Web site listed above.  [8]

This "protocol" has continued for so long that the education world has come to think of itself as the source of knowledge. Since God cannot be scientifically proven to exist, man is left thinking of himself as the repository of supreme intelligence & knowledge and that he is not responsible (to God) for his actions.  [9]

Dr. Salk is an example of the science/education system wanting to claim credit for the work of an individual "puttering around" in his kitchen. Clearly the EVIDENCE shows Dr Salk did not learn to kill viruses for vaccine use in the education system. Yes, he used the academic skills he had learned, but the learning of a skill is far different than the results from using that skill. LEARNING TO SWIM IS A FAR CRY FROM WINNING 8 GOLD MEDALS IN THE OLYMPICS!!! I don't see those who taught Michael Phelps to swim expecting to be given the credit for his 8 gold medals. The evidence shows that Salk's use of his academic skill, who single-handedly has saved millions of children, (from exposure to polio) was denied his "gold medal", denied membership in the Academy of Scientists, denied the Nobel prize in the medical field & in general denigrated by the "system". "Evidence" of jealous, puffed up science educators & colleagues? See the Time web site above.  [10]

It seems that you are taking my "disdain" for the education system as a personal affront to your education. Evidence of this is shown in sarcastic statements about "tinkering to invent salad shooters, toilet bowl cleaning systems" & etc. But once again you are "mixing", the respect for an academic skill, with my disdain for the education system's failure to transfer that skill to every student (no child left behind) so that he/she can get a job that will keep them out of poverty. I do think that the "majority of breakthroughs" will come from those who have an academic skill(s), I just don't know where students are going to get those skill(s) unless we attach educational funding (vouchers) to each student and let private & public education compete in EDUCATION QUALITY for those $$.  [11]

The evidence shows, you are mixing opinion with science. Opinion, without "verification" about TOE, opinion about the "best ... theory" of explanation of evolving of life without a "verifiable" example, opinion about my understanding of liberal vs. conservative without scientific method, & opinion about my supposed "disdain for education" skills.  [12]

To the extent that the education system provides a "sheep skin" so that people can make a "good living", I find a good thing. To the extent that quality & confidence in America's education system is being lost, evidenced by (academic skill) testing results, & foreigners being imported (H 2 B Visa program) for those "good living" jobs, I deplore.  [13]

I too hope you will take my comments in the spirit of constructive dialogue in which they are intended. That you would even read & communicate with a high school drop out is impressive. I didn't know you had so much education. Likely, anything I have to say is totally boring to you.  [14]